Dianna Love and Mary Buckham, guest blogging today!

46 Responses to “Dianna Love and Mary Buckham, guest blogging today!”

1. Pamela says on: 25 July 2008 at 9:44 am

   Dianna and Mary, thanks so much for visiting with us today! Your bullet points on pacing are very helpful.

   Do you think it is harder to control pacing when writing in first person or third?
2. Jane E. Jones says on: 25 July 2008 at 10:15 am

   Hi Mary and Dianna, and thanks so much for being here! I’m going to go see if I can send out some reminders that you’re here:)
3. Barbara says on: 25 July 2008 at 1:16 pm

   WOW! Seriously, this was extremely informative because I do have a tendancy to drag out desciptive scenes in my stories.

   I suppose being a new writer I feel like I HAVE to descripe every aspect of what is going on. I do notice as I re-read it that the scene sort of drags but I have a difficult time cutting those descriptions short and still feel like my reader will “see” exactly what I do as I’m writing.

   I noticed that the majority of books I have read recently have alot more dialogue than older ones, and yes, it does keep my attention longer. As a friend of mine informed me, readers do have a tendency of “skipping over” decsriptions just to get to the dialogue.
4. Jane E. says on: 25 July 2008 at 1:26 pm

   Hi Barbara! Thanks for visiting and for commenting. Cutting your words (killing your darlings) is always difficult! My mentor had me go back and cut two hundred words out of the first five hundred. It seemed impossible until I did it. After that, it got easier ; )
5. Dianna Love says on: 25 July 2008 at 3:06 pm

   Hi Pamela -

   First – sorry I’m so late. I had a bit of a crisis come up today and had to leave the office, thus no typing. Argh!

   I think pacing is the same in both first and third person. What I think makes a big difference is how comfortable you are in either of those so that you can focus entirely on the story. If you’re just tyring out one for the first time, get the feel down first then worry about the story so that it doesn’t feel disjointed.

   But pacing is above scene and character movements, small things as much as large ones.

   Good question.

   Thanks for stopping by.
   Dianna
6. Bonnie says on: 25 July 2008 at 3:07 pm

   This pacing advice reminds me of how I feel when I watch the movie Pride and Prejudice made in 2006 with Keira Knightley. Every woman wants the type of love you experience in watching that movie even though there is nothing more than the building of interest of the characters and believing in the truth and honesty of love.
7. Dianna Love says on: 25 July 2008 at 3:16 pm

   HI Barbara -

   Yep. You nailed that exactly. It’s those long descriptive scenes that lose a reader. What I see more often than not in long descriptive scenes or heavy introspection is that the writer did a “stream of conscience” writing – which is a good thing so that you get the thoughts out while they are fresh in your mind.

   After you write a long description, take it apart into sections. Decide what one – three sentences the reader really needs to know about that scene at this moment and save the other parts to add at other moments. When it comes to a description, work on ways to bring in description during action.

   Here’s an example of a short snippet description from the first book I wrote – Worth Every Risk:

   Brilliant light flashed across the heavens, highlighting the brass bed on her right. A silk duvet covered the lump she’d built with pillows. The sleeping effigy would gain her an extra minute.

   This woman is escaping so as a reader I only need to know she’s in a private compound of a prominent businessman and currently in a bedroom, waiting for a chance to escape if the storm knocks out the power like it has several times since she’s been there. There’s no point in describing the weather or the room, unless it plays a role in her escape.

   As for introspection – I tell everyone that we all “think” while we’re talking and while we’re in action, so don’t stop to insert a thought and don’t tell the reader “now that Suzy had time she wanted to think about what had happened.” That announces you are stopping the action and taking a step backwards. Feed “thoughts” in while they would normally happen.

   Thanks for your comments and for stopping by.
   Dianna
8. Dianna Love says on: 25 July 2008 at 3:22 pm

   Hi Bonnie -

   I loved that movie! But then I love movie’s where I can cheer for characters.

   Mary and I often use the movie Pretty Woman in our plotting retreats because it’s a romance with no big suspense or explosions going on, but the pacing is nonstop. When you watch Pride and Prejudice again, take a notepad and just jot down what is happening in quick sentences. Jot down any specific dialogue that really “told you something” about a character or a situation. Notice how close they shoot the characters and when they pull back to include more of the setting.

   We’ve all seen beautiful panoramic settings, but if that was the majority of the movie it would be boring. Same thing in writing.

   Pride and Prejudice captures our attention and holds it because we are fixated on the characters. If you make notes as you watch and jot down little comments about what you think a character is feeling or thinking at the moment, you’ll see how things change subtly, but the story continues to move ahead at a nice pace.

   Thanks for stopping by and for that observation.

   Dianna
9. BB says on: 25 July 2008 at 3:23 pm

   Dianna and Mary, I’m not a writer…but I sure am a reader! I’ll have to check out your sites and pick up a few titles of books that may be of interest to me! In reading over your comments, you are both right…when I pick up a book to check out…it does take me a very short time (30 seconds or less!) to decide if it’s my kind of read…one I’ll enjoy. The short description has to grab me right away. I look forward to enjoying both of your books! BB
10. Dianna Love says on: 25 July 2008 at 3:33 pm

    Hi BB -
    YOU are the reason we work so hard to figure out how to best write a story. Thanks so much for coming out to share a “reader’s” POV, because that’s the whole point in these workshops. We want to give readers books they are going to be excited about and enjoy the entire time they spend reading it.

    My mother-in-law reads probably a book a day. She called me up when she read Phantom In The Night and told me she reads most books so fast because she skims a lot of heavy text, but had to read every line of our book for fear of missing something. That’s music to the ears of an author.

    I have short patience when I’m reading anything and someone has to grab me fast and keep the pacing up – so when I write if I lose interest at any point, I back away and rethink the scene to determine if it’s really necessary or if I could pull out some important parts and feed them into a more active scene.

    Thanks again for stopping by and reinforcing why pacing is paramount.

    Dianna
11. Mary B :-) says on: 25 July 2008 at 3:35 pm

    BB ~~ gold stars to you for being the kind of reader who goes behind the scenes to discover why you can get hooked into some books and not others. That’s all a part of pacing. The constant raising of story questions that keeps a reader turning the pages. I’ve just joined a new critique group and one of the critiquers is a reader — never wrote a word, doesn’t want too — but she can so quickly put her finger on the elements of a story that work and work well or that cause her, as a reader, speed bumps. Thank heavens there are readers like yourself – you make every writer strive harder to tell a great story!
    Thanks for stopping by today!

    ~~ Mary B
12. Mary B :-) says on: 25 July 2008 at 3:42 pm

    Hello Jane ~~

    Thank you for having both Dianna and myself here today! You’ve raised a great question about the different pacing requirements if you’re writing first or third person. Dianna nailed a lot of the issues so my two cents would be is that the biggest struggle for writers when writing first person is to realize that because it’s so much easier to be in deep POV in a first person narrative that the pacing can be too fast Learning to slow down a story in first person so that a reader can live and experience and savor the moment can be more of a challenge but is imperative that you do this. So if you, or anyone, is considering their first foray into first person POV keep in mind that pacing is about balancing the fast witht he slow during a story. Readers need both.

    Hope this helps ~~ Mary B
13. Mary B :-) says on: 25 July 2008 at 3:47 pm

    Hello Barbara ~~

    Ah – another writer who loves to describe I am soooo guilty of that in my first draft [stop chuckling Dianna!] and you’re right. We add all that wonderful description because we so want readers to be deep into our stories, to taste and feel and see. But as Dianna has already pointed out [and points out to me all the time] less can be more. A trick I do when cutting words [and paragraphs and in the book I'm currently working a whole character's POV] is to create a SAVE file. I just copy and cut to that file so if I find I want to use any of those words later I can always find them. As you can guess, I never have, but it feels good to know they are not gone forever
    Best of luck with your writing and thanks for stopping by today!

    ~~ Mary B
14. Pamela Sweet says on: 25 July 2008 at 3:48 pm

    Thank you both for answering my question about pacing in first and third person. I’ve tried writing in both and agree that my pacing in first person is much faster. It’s probably okay with a rough first draft but I’ll definitely go back to balance it.

    Thanks again for guest blogging at our site today!
15. Mary B :-) says on: 25 July 2008 at 3:49 pm

    Oh bother ) Pamela my apologies for calling you Jane – and my apologies to Jane for not reading the posts right. My kids are used to me calling them by any name I have handy but I usually am better in public. Usually

    ~~ Mary B – who also responds to a lot of different names but we won’t go there
16. Mary B :-) says on: 25 July 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Hello Bonnie ~~

    Ah — another P&P lover! I actually have my husbands and sons who’ll spend all of a Saturday watching Jane Austen with me – starting with P&P, going on to Emma, then Mansfield Park [though I'm waiting for a really great version of that], on to Persuasion [waiting for the latest BBC version to come out in that - so far it's the best I've seen] and then we wind up with watching the Jane Austen Book Club. I even have one son who’s a Ranger medic who has the long BBC version of Pride and Prejudice. He says his buddies give him grief [go figure] but their wives are always inviting him over and asking him to bring his DVDs. And his Ranger buddies will watch them then. Now that’s a sign of great pacing ))

    Thanks for sharing ~~ Mary B — feeling the need for a spot of tea coming on
17. Jane E. says on: 25 July 2008 at 4:02 pm

    Hi Dianna and Mary! Thanks for coming here today to do this blog. You’re giving us so much useful information.
    Mary, no apologies necessary! Also, I do that exact same thing when I’m cutting words; I save them in another file just in case, haha:) It’s too scary to toss them out!
18. Pamela Sweet says on: 25 July 2008 at 4:11 pm

    No problem at all, Mary. I answer to many names as well. My mother even called me Fig once (the family cat)! I’ve continued this tradition with my son.
19. Pamela says on: 25 July 2008 at 4:29 pm

    Taking notes on pacing while watching movies is a great idea. Chocolat is one of my favorite movies. In it, I think the setting and description are almost like another character. I haven’t read the book but I can imagine there would be a lot of description. Would either of you care to comment on the pacing in this movie/book and what I should look for while watching it? Thank you.
20. Pamela Sweet says on: 25 July 2008 at 4:35 pm

    Sorry, that was me, Pamela Sweet, in the previous comment.
21. Leigh Royals says on: 25 July 2008 at 4:45 pm

    May I print this out! This is excellent and just what I needed. Thank you both so much for your time.
22. Leigh Royals says on: 25 July 2008 at 5:06 pm

    Mary B and Jane E. I just did the save file thing for reworking my first 25 pages. I lost about 30 pages of garbage. And what I copy and pasted into a new document I color coded for whose pov I’m in so I keep myself in track. I’m glad I’m figuring out something right! woo to the hoo!
23. Jacs says on: 25 July 2008 at 5:16 pm

    Hi Dianna and Mary!

    Terrific post. Very informative to this aspiring writer. It’s funny how pacing really does effect a story and how certain rhythms help the reader get involved. For me, while I believe I have my beginning and end pacing down, my problem is that middle part of a story. My pacing drags. I want the reader to take a breather, yet don’t want them to rest so much that they think, ‘well this writer WAS taking me on this marvelous journey and suddenly she stopped! What gives?’. I don’t want them to skip ahead a few pages…It’s as if I’m hauling this huge sled up a mountain and I can’t decide what to take off to make the load lighter. I know it will come with practicing my craft more and more but I tell ya it does get frustrating, especially when you know good things in your story is just ahead.

    Now as a reader, POV in a story is very important to me. For me personally, I prefer reading third person and not first. But that is just me. For me the feel and pace of the story is quite different and I get more out of a tale when I see various POV. And while I know some readers (and writers) aren’t too fond of ‘head hopping’ for wont of a better expression, I like it. Well I should say I like it if it’s done well. It has to feel seemless and natural and not ‘jerky’ where you’re reaching for an excedrin cause you’re trying to keep track of who is thinking what!

    A recent movie that I was very pleasantly surprised at was Forgetting Sarah Marshall. I almost didn’t see it because the way it was promoted I thought it was going to be one of those silly ‘vacation’ movies where hijinks and mayhem are the main key plots. In other words, something I didn’t want to shell out $10 bucks for plus popcorn!

    I’m glad a friend dragged me to see it. Forgetting Sarah Marshall is a smart, funny movie. Without giving much away the movie is about a man who recently broke up with his famous girlfriend and his journey to figuring out who he is and why that relationship didn’t work out. Loved the pace of the movie and the fact that while yes, the guy and his journey was the main focus of the film, they also showed from other characters POV why Sarah and he broke up. It made me think and entertained me at the same time. Great writing in it and it’s a pity it didn’t do as well at the box office as I believe it deserved.

    Another movie with terrific pacing was The Visitor. It’s about a widower, now going through the day to day living without really having a ‘life’, but when he befriends a couple of illegal immigrants, it’s as if the bubble he had been living in burst. Beautifully written and each character in the movie is necessary for the plot to move along.

    Again Thanks Dianna and Mary for guest blogging! Hugs!
24. Jane E. says on: 25 July 2008 at 5:37 pm

    Thanks for coming by Leigh and Jacs! Great idea about color coding, Leigh! Now I just need an idea on how to get more time to do everything I need to do plus write as much as I want, haha:)
25. Mary B :-) says on: 25 July 2008 at 5:50 pm

    Hi Pamela ~~

    Great question on the pacing in a movie like Chocolate — and yes – the setting is very much an additional character. What one needs to remember about a movie like this when thinking pacing is that different genres and even subgenres have their own pacing needs. So what is encouraged and perfectly acceptable in let’s say Suspense or a Thriller would make an historical feel rushed and too hurried. And vice a verse. In a movie like Chocolate the viewer embraces the pacing sensabilities in part because all the clues they are given are that this is a movie/story is meant to be savored, not rushed. They are meant to slow themselves as they view and experience the events unfolding. In a movie music and visuals can be used to slow [or increase] the pacing as well as the angle of shots, how long a camera remains on a particular shot etc. That translates to a page in how much focus is given to a secondary character, how much time is spent on interspection, description, word choices, etc.

    I hope this helps ~~again a great question! ~~ Mary B
26. Mary B :-) says on: 25 July 2008 at 5:54 pm

    Hello Leigh ~~

    Oh – love the idea of color coding outtakes. My only challenge would be remembering what the codes meant. When Dianna and I were editing drafts of our Break Into Fiction: Plot Your Novel, she’d color code sections while she worked on it in Atlanta and I’d do the same in my neck of the woods – The Pacific Northwest – then we’d switch chapters. Next thing we knew we’d be on the phone asking what green or yellow meant in this version?

    Thanks for sharing and for stopping by! ~~ Mary B
27. Mary B :-) says on: 25 July 2008 at 5:58 pm

    Hi Jacs ~~ The Visitor is on my must-view list. It looked so fascinating and now it looks like I’ll have to put the Sarah Marshall movie on the list too ~~ LOL! Pacing in the middle of a story has a lot to do with the elements of plotting. It’s actually one of the reasons Dianna and I wrote the Break Into Fiction: PLot Your Novel book — it includes a series of templates to ask questions of your commercial fiction story at key areas of your story so that you as the author will know if your story is on track and moving forward or if you’ve gotten off track [one of the most common pacing issues] and you simply have your characters simply acting and doing stuff but it’s not moving the plot forward. We’re hoping the book is coming out next June – at least that’s the info we’re going on now – but pacing in publishing makes pacing in plot seem easy .

    Thanks so much for sharing ~~ Mary B
28. bria says on: 25 July 2008 at 6:29 pm

    This is great. Thank you so much for taking the time to make it so clear. Nothing feels better than when my CP asks, “Can I have the next chapter early?”
29. Dianna Love says on: 25 July 2008 at 7:27 pm

    Pamela -

    I hope there is only one Pamela since it sounds like one…but then again, I do have blonde moments. “g” As for Chocolat, I loved the movie too, but haven’t seen it for a while.

    However, when I watch a movie I like a lot, I go back the second time to analyze. I watch to see the subtle change in character (the “arc”) and when the movie takes a turn (twist points) and what makes the stakes raise so high by the end. Things like that.

    I do pick a movie and study it for something specific, especially if I didn’t care for the whole movie but thought they did a great job on X. Then I analyze why X was good and what would have made the movie “work” for me.

    Dianna…who has no gold stars, because Mary has them in locked box – but I do have M&Ms
30. Dianna Love says on: 25 July 2008 at 7:31 pm

    Leigh -

    That’s great to keep a file and an excellent suggestion on Mary’s part. But then she is the smart one. “g”

    Mary and I teach Power Plotting retreats across the country. One thing we tell our students – who are both pre-published and multi-published – is to free themselves from stressing over changing their story by saving the original in a file and giving themselves the freedom to make a lot of changes to the new file.

    We all know we can do this but for some reason we need to be given the okay to do it sometime.

    Then you end up with this file of great lines you can just dip into when you’re having one of those tough days on writing.

    Thanks for stopping by.
    Dianna
31. Dianna Love says on: 25 July 2008 at 7:38 pm

    Hi Jacs -

    Are you Jacs from Toronto? I know one from there and your post reminds me of her thoughtful ones.

    I’m with you on POV. I like to be clearly in a POV and it can change during a scene as long as it is done smoothly.

    Funny how you used the analogy of dragging something up a mountain. I feel like I’m climbing a mountain when I’m working on a story and know the minute I start down the sharp backside when everything is slamming toward the climax of the story.

    The sagging middle is an evil demon. The key is change and raising stakes, even when the action slows. Sounds like you’re tuned in on that as well.

    Great post. Thanks for stopping by.
    Dianna
32. bria says on: 25 July 2008 at 7:40 pm

    I came back to read this with pen and paper ready and saw that I’d not answered the questions!

    I would have to say the best example of this for me personally was Mary Stewart’s “The Ivy Tree.” (Ok, almost any Mary Stewart book) – She does an amazing job of playing with the readers ability to trust the characters and sometimes emotionally dragging you through her stories – in a good way!

    The first time I read the Ivy Tree, the idea that the main character may or may not be the person everyone else thought she was, that the clues were internal as well as external, and the threat to her and the life everyone else had created in the absence of the girl the thought she’d been — well, I couldn’t put it down!

    The questions never stopped, and even when I got an occasional answer I didn’t know if I could trust it and it only raised more questions!

    I wish I could pull people in like that!
33. Dianna Love says on: 25 July 2008 at 7:41 pm

    Bria -

    Yes! We want cps and readers to be dying for that next chapter. That’s why I don’t want to read Mary’s until it’s done. I have no patience – as she of all people knows – so I’d have to fly across country and stand over her shoulder while she typed if she didn’t give me all the chapters at once.

    It’s great to read someone’s work you love to read.

    Sounds like you’re doing well on pacing!
    Thanks for stopping by.
    Dianna
34. Pamela Sweet says on: 25 July 2008 at 7:42 pm

    I actually have a few hours to myself this weekend and believe some movie viewing is in order. Thanks to the excellent advice of Dianna and Mary, I’ll be watching with new eyes and my trusty notebook. THank you both for your thoughts.
35. Dianna Love says on: 25 July 2008 at 7:48 pm

    Pamela – Thank YOU and thank you to Jane for having us here.

    I’ve been perusing the site some – what a fun site! And Congrats Jane on the super review from Angel reviews.

    Dianna…off playing for a moment
36. Mary B :-) says on: 25 July 2008 at 7:58 pm

    Hi Bria ~~ Too fun! My husband knows well the phenomena of the I-got-carried-away-with-a-thought response and forgot to do something. It’s almost a running joke and he knows it usually means I’m off on a story thought You really nailed a very important pacing element on the head in the way Mary Stewart raises story questions. As an author one should never answer a story question without making sure another one is raised. That’ll keep those pages turning.

    Thanks for sropping in today! ~~ Mary B
37. Jane E. says on: 25 July 2008 at 8:12 pm

    Thanks for the comment on the site and on my reviews, Dianna! Today was doubly good for me, because not only were you and Mary here, but my second release-Beauty’s Beast-is out today!
38. Dianna Love says on: 25 July 2008 at 9:31 pm

    Jane -

    Congrats on the second release!! And thanks again for inviting us. I’m signing off, but want to wish everyone good writing vibes and please speak if you see us in person somewhere. It’s always nice to meet outside of cyber space, but I’ve enjoyed our afternoon and evening here (I’m EST).

    thanks, Dianna
39. Jane E. says on: 25 July 2008 at 9:38 pm

    Thank you, Dianna, and you, Mary! We’ve loved having you both. Have a great night!
40. Jane E. says on: 25 July 2008 at 9:53 pm

    Hi everybody! Two names will be drawn tonight and the winners will be posted tomorrow. So check back, and good luck to all of you!
41. Jacs says on: 25 July 2008 at 10:02 pm

    Jane – Thanks for the warm welcome. Been looking around at your site. Really enjoying it . And again thanks for inviting Mary and Dianna.

    Mary – I can not wait when Break Into Fiction is published. Between Dianna and you I know I will learn alot!

    Dianna – Yes ma’am it’s THAT Jacs.
42. Pamela Sweet says on: 25 July 2008 at 10:05 pm

    Thank you, Mary and Dianna, for the great advice and inspiration!
43. Jane E. says on: 25 July 2008 at 10:42 pm

    Thanks, Jacs! It was great having you and I really enjoyed your comment. Now I have two new movies to add to my list.
    I’m hoping we’ll get Dianna and Mary back sometime. They’re wonderful!
    Thanks again for coming, and be sure to check back tomorrow for the posted winners
44. Mary B :-) says on: 25 July 2008 at 11:58 pm

    Jane, Pamela, BB and all the lovely guests who visited the blog today ~~ thank you ever so much for hosting Dianna and myself. We had a great time and wish you all wonderful days of writing and reading!

    All the best ~~ Mary B
45. Jane E. says on: 26 July 2008 at 12:10 am

    Thanks Mary! You both were awesome and we so enjoyed having you. Thanks so much for spending time with us today and giving us such wonderful information!
46. Leigh Royals says on: 26 July 2008 at 10:34 am

    eagerly awaiting the winning anouncement!

    I love these things. But even if I don’t win a prize, the blog was worth it!

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